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[Lena]

"We're attending Anime Iowa in a couple of weeks and they have just banned the sale of all fan art in Artist's Alley"

Holy mcjeezus fuck.

On my usual meanderings I can across a recent post in a thread on the Oyayocon (American Con) forums. Apparently, conventions are being pressured by companies to stop the sale of fanart in the US.

Now, I want to know how everyone would feel about this. From a personal note, i'm divided. I can see the legal side of the argument, and I respect that, and no longer produce fanart for sale purposes. I'm getting rid of all the remaining fanart i still have. But on the flip side I'm also good friends with a few people who do shitloads of fanart for sale at cons (Snowbunny, etc) and I know that this form of enforcement might cripple their con prospects if it were enforced here in Australia. Whilst six months ago I might have said, "well they chose to steal someone's IP" but now I really just feel an awkward sympathy.

But what does everyone think? After attending the EXCELLENT talk on Bootlegging at SMASH (which was really amusing considering the number of fanartists and the presence of actual bootleggers) I think the Australian cons really need to consider this, especially if the American market is cracking down.

Official thread announcement on AnimeIowa Forums (a con that HAS cracked down on fanart) - http://www.animeiowa.com/cgi-bin/smf/index.php?topic=3365.0
Ohayocon Forum (discussion begins page 2) - http://forums.ohayocon.org/viewtopic.php?t=2264&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Now I'm going to go and research this further in case i've missed something. If anyone knows anything about this I'd like to hear it, especially if it contradicts this information . I really would like to get to the bottom of it.
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Chasing a Penguin <3

[Barboxacon]

This is the news that has utterly and entirely made my day.
I brought this up on the Manifest forums and much discussion was had until a moderator went and blanketed the whole thing, two/three weeks after it started. (And after another half dozen mods had already posted opinions.) No reply/comment has been made since.

I requested Manifest seriously consider this issue, and I'll be seriously disappointed if they don't. They don't let bootlegs get sold, so why do they let fan-art be sold? I'll be rightly annoyed if they don't make a statement on it, because it's a legal issue that it's downright stupid for them to ignore. If fantraders don't get permission from the original companies to sell such works, they shouldn't be allowed to.

A couple of people said that the difference was that sometimes fan artists offer things the original creators don't, but then I pointed out something along the lines of - "What would you all say if I came on to the general forums and said help! This is my drawing here (url), and it's been re-drawn and used here (url) by some big clothing company!" The response would be "send a cease-and-desist or sue their arses" would it not be?" They might be saying fanartists are okay because they offer different products, but really, I pointed out, what if my picture had been just sitting on photobucket and I hadn't even been making a profit off it at all? Surely you would still sing to the tune of "take legal action!" even if I wasn't making a profit?

Is it just me, or is it just big fish, little fish? That fanartists are given the right to steal just because they're small scale?

I was angry about them being allowed to trade at Manifest based on the fact that they're thieves, they steal from the original company AND they could their productivity towards more important things like ORIGINAL work. I also called them talentless hacks. They didn't approve much. (But I don't really care.)

Personally, I'm *really* glad to hear this. It's about time conventions started realizing that they're *advertising* illegal trade. Conventions can't pretend "fan-traders" doesn't mean "people who drawn other people's characters". As much as they might like to think it means "Fans of anime/manga who draw stuff", I get the feeling that the general consensus does not read "fantrader" that way.

So yes! Be gone with the lot of them! I have little sympathy for people who rely on other people's talent. They should put their efforts in to their own work, or just stop trading altogether.
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- Barboxacon Salenmo

[Lena]

I've also posted this on the Manifest Forums, so we'll see how it goes. I'm also planning on posting it on SMASH, and debating whether or not to bother with Supa or Arma, since i don't really recall too many fanartists there.
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Chasing a Penguin <3

[Barboxacon]

Ah! I see. Well... I'll come check out Manifest. I hope they don't lock it, they said that no further discussion was to be had on the matter after the last thread was locked >.<

I really don't understand that at all. Why on earth aren't we allowed to discuss an important, relevant, legal issue on the forums?

I personally think this issue should go everywhere! But no point spreading yourself thin over forums ^^
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- Barboxacon Salenmo

[Gerkinman]

Fuck yeh, take that fan fuckers!
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Im ghey

[natfrobinson]

I'll take the rationality of Barb's post and mix it with the rampant trolling of Gerkin's. That's my opinion on this matter, I have nothing more to add.
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[Ayvah]

It's just fan art. Fan art is not going to kill the profits of Big Anime.

Fan art, doujins, these have done nothing to stifle the popularity of anime in Japan. They have an entire culture built around it.

The fact that it's fan art doesn't mean that it's not creative. Fan art is an expression of affection for the work of another. You can be lazy and not contribute anything, or you could put some effort into it. As much as a few artists' lack of creativity may disgust you, ultimately this is separate from the issue.

Culture is not pulled from a void. Culture is built upon culture. If the culture is not causing significant harm, then an attack on that culture is an attack upon the evolution of thought.

Maybe people should concentrate on real problems.
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I write because I never learned to read.

[musaera]

im not so much upset about fan art taking from big companies... i mean fan art taking the spot light off original creations, like sitting in artists alley selling original stuff, and being ignored for the girl selling cheap laminated book marks of chibi gaara in a panda suit.... its kinda depressing.
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hello.... i like your mind.... may i taste it?

[Lena]

[Barboxacon]

[Avi]

I'm with Wendy on this one.

Fan art is not the problem itself. The problem is when people then go and sell it at cons, in the full knowledge that people will buy it.
When you make something with the intention to sell it to other people, then you are profiteering.
Even if you're only doing it to cover costs, you're still profiteering from it because you would not otherwise have had the money to make it.

A fan, in the literal derivation of the word, would give away the content.
There was a guy at SMASH giving away an original comic even... there's someone that's truly dedicated to their work.... fanatical about it even.

But yeah, my stance: You want to make money from it, then it should either be your own work, or you should get permission from the person that made it.
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Avi - The cute & fuzzy galactic overlord

[H PoP]

Fanart in and of itself isn't a problem. If you don't like what it is or you do, it's entirely your opinion.

The problem is the SALE of fanart. You're profiteering from someone's IP and not your own.

Fanart being sold at conventions comes about as the artists themselves who created their works are not in attendence, so to fill that void, people have created works to compensate as the work is popular and it has to be filled to meet demand. Too bad it's not legal as well as ethically right. If the artists for one piece or naruto did the rounds, then their wouldn't be as much fanart for sale (really. who would buy inferior knock-offs). Hence why if you compare how the US and European industries are doing at their cons, their IPs are not being knocked-off like Japan.
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Blog

Deviant Art

[nz13590]

Like Ayvah said ~ production and selling of Fanarts is pretty much part of the Japanese Anime Culture~ once it goes out of it~ guess it doesn't work~
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My DevArt

NIPPA ^______^

[Nobody]

This has inspired a tangential line of thought in relation to my sketchblog which I wrote about on there. Link for the interested.

As for the topic... yeah, I'm not a fan of fans leeching off the success of their idols to make some cash and overshadowing the people trying to be original, simply because ZOMG they has posters of Ichigo and Ishida kissssing! Sugoi!
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[musaera]

but this isnt japan. i dunno about the states but our comic community is so small here.

fan art and the sale there of in japan may be ok. but they have such a large market for comics.

we dont. and most people here buy either japanese or american comics.
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